Sleepers

My ideal hold to be in even as a resistant jobber would be a top type guy expert in safe rnc, and rock hard biceps which he uses to taunt and keep me under control and edged a bit until he decides when to put me out
HMU if this is you and within reasonable distance or visiting

Chris wrestler has the best advice here in a post

My ideal hold to be in even as a resistant jobber would be a top type guy expert in safe rnc, and rock hard biceps which he uses to taunt and keep me under control and edged a bit until he decides when to put me out
HMU if this is you and within reasonable distance or visiting

If youve got 2 people, a rnc while being pounded in the gut can be pretty intense. Leaves the punchee conflicted between trying to get the choke off and covering their stomach.

Pretty much any hold where my stomach's exposed I wish there was another person to come in with gut punches :-D

Brutal Rnc is with the fore arm in the middle of the neck it's very painful and dangerous it's better to cut the bloodflow on each side of the neck you go to sleep like a bitch and it's absolutely not dangerous nor painful. A brutal rnc is shit...

Choking someone, no matter how you do it, always comes with significant risk and claiming cutting off blood flow to the brain is safe is a horrifically irresponsible thing to do. Yes, forearm across the trachea has obvious risks but if someone's artery is compromised it can be ruptured, choking increases cranial pressure which can lead to an aneurism, restricting blood to the brain can trigger cardiac arrest at any age, breaking a clot free can cause a stroke, compressing the vagus nerve can drop the heart rate. I'm not kink shaming but at least be honest about the risks.

Por eso si haces RNC o cualquier otro estrangulamiento tienes que saber que tu contrincante
1. Suele hacer bastante deporte, o sea, que viva muchos momentos de estrés físico (muchos síntomas neurológicos y cardiovasculares se revelan haciendo deporte y también las placas steroscleróticas se hacen más estables)
2. No tiene dolores de cabeza, desmayos, pérdidas de conocimiento, crisis epilépticos o cualquier síntomas neurológico y si tiene que este síntoma sea bien investigadonpor un médico especialista y que este dé un permiso.
3. No está bajo los efectos de estupefacientes
4. No tiene hipertensión arterial ni diabetes no controladas
5. No está en un proceso de tratamiento más intenso (quimioterapia antineoplásica o antibioticotetapia, por ejemplo)
6. No tiene problemas estructurales del cuello o la cabeza o traumatismos recientes.

Es lo que se me ha ocurrido ahora mismo y es lo mínimo de lo mínimo de la seguridad. Si tienes dudas, no estrangules.

Una estrangulación que hace un amigo en mí podéis ver en mis vídeos. Al principio se asusta y llega a provocarme un desmayo. La segunda vez el cerebro responde con una actividad comicial (epiléptica) y el cuerpo empieza a moverse de forma rara (se flexionan las extremidades involuntariamente, entre otros...). Esta vez pierdo el conocimiento para unos segundos y me despierto en un estado m confusional leve.

The fact that you state a medical provider would ever give you permission to be choked out demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about. Yes, physical fitness can suggest that you're less likely to go into cardiac arrest but it absolutely doesn't mean you won't. People can have blood clots and never know it, doctors don't look for them unless you're in the ER or have symptoms that warrant investigation. The structures in your neck are very fragile so even if you don't have a recent injury doesn't mean you won't get injured. Likewise, people have had broken necks for years without knowing it, look up Buster Keaton. As for your "seizure", that's very common when you're choked out and didn't necessarily mean anything.

Si entrenas y te estrangulan o intentan estrangular varias veces por semana con una presión a las estructuras como tráquea, columna cervical, todos los vasos sanguíneos, sistema linfático, endocrino etc correspondientes un riesgo. Puede ser un pequeño aplastamiento de un nodo linfático que te dolerá unas 2 semanas, puede ser que se te despegue una placa aterosclerótica...

Pero si haces la actividad deportiva marcial ningún médico ye dirá: no la hagas (a no ser que tuvieras unas contraindicaciones importantes). En la vida corremos un riesgo. Y más, imagínate que te despiertas, mueves el cuello, hace un ruido y se te crea aneurisma dissecans en la arteria vertebral... ve demandando a tu médico de que no te ha advertido de eso...

Todas las actividades deportivas conllevan riesgo. Comer comida basura conlleva riesgos (mira le epidemia de diabetes y obesidad en los EEUU). Trabajar demasiado y dormir poco conlleva riesgo... la gente consume alcohol y tabaco... no es posible reducir riesgos a cero. Y cada vida acaba con la muerte.

Getting choked is no where close to getting out of bed. I'm speaking as a former emt. As for the sport, which I've done for 10+ years, I have never been cooked out in class or a tournament. We've practiced and used them plenty but not in the way a lot of people on here do. The reason I'm speaking up to you is because you and many others keep calling it safe, it's not remotely safe at all. It's a similar risk to crossing a 4+ lane highway on foot, sure you may get away with it... until you don't.

Siempre hay riesgo. Durante los entrenos tampoco me ha pasado la pérdida de conocimiento. Y suelo palmear antes de que se me vayan los sentidos. Tampoco he hecho ninguna técnica que haya acabado con un desmayo. Durante el entreno. Pero con la gente deportista unas pocas veces me he atrevido hacer el mataleón o triángulo hasta el final. Siempre manteniéndolo lo mínimo del tiempo necesario. Si ves a mi perfil he publicado un videoclip donde la persona que le enseñé todo relacionado con el mataleón me la hace. He corrido un riesgo? Sí. Ha sido un riesgo alto? No lo sé. Si queres responderme búsca publicaciones en EBM, no digas que uno u otro te ha dicho eso o aquello. Busca lo científico.

I feel like I need to make clear why I am even bothering talking to you and it comes down to ethics. I believe in risk aware consensual kink, when I choke someone out, we have this conversation first. You can't truly get consent if the other person isn't aware of the risks. I have made you aware of the risks, you can choose to believe me or not but when you go around saying it's safe or diminish the perception of risk, you are no longer putting others in the position of being able to actually consent. You might be the one who wants to be choked out and you think that you're taking all the risks, well you're not. If you get injured or you die, your play partner goes to jail. That's the reality. I suggest you stop worrying about trying to be right, you're not, and start thinking about the consequences of your actions.

Evidence provided: "I have never been choked out but have seen people choked out and they seemed ok" -anecdotal evidence

Criticism of me: send studies not anecdotes.

I'm a former health care provider and current allied health care professional with over 20 years wrestling experience, 10+ years of BJJ, who has done several videos on youtube on this subject and written extensively on it outlining not just what can happen but the mechanisms for how it happens.

You know why there aren't a lot of studies on this? Hrm? Because there is no ethical way to conduct them. Several of the articles center on domestic abuse which isn't the same as what we are talking about, that's changing though as choking for sex is becoming more popular.

What we are finding is that people who engage in consensual choking often develop concentration problems, memory issues, anxiety, depression, we are also seeing an uptick in deaths from choking but oftentimes they aren't even on the same day as the choking occurred. You see, the pressure from blood trapped in the head can compromise the blood vessels leading to an aneurysm, on other cases the arteries in the neck can become damaged leading to clotting that can sometimes break free 3 days later causing a stroke. Hyoid injuries are very common. Vagus nerve irritation is why we do not take a person's pulse from their neck anymore.

One of the things that happens with anxiety is that the sympathetic nervous system becomes ultra primed for fight or flight which increases SA node activity in the heart, this tends to be bad for heart rate variability, the ability of your heart to speed up when it needs to and come down when it's done. Couple that with a hypoxic brain telling the heart it needs circulation the heart starts to over exert itself and goes into fibrillation, cardiac arrest, and then death. If you start CPR right away the person has a 10% chance of survival, higher if you have an AED which no one has in their homes.

This "conversation" has literally been you saying "it's safe to eat shards of glass" and me outlining why that is a bad idea with you saying, "prove it" so I do with easy to fact check information and then you respond by talking out of your poop hole while trying to hold me to a higher standard than you are holding yourself to. I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe try thinking about what the consequences are of someone listening to you vs listening to me. If I'm wrong and they listen to me, ok, and if they listen to you nothing happens. If I'm right and people listen to me they exercise caution, If they listen to you they suffer brain injuries and could possibly die.

I want to be the bitch you put to sleep.

My neck's bones are not in good shape, so I'd pass that. Anyway, if I get a RNC I expect to lose consciousness as soon as possible. That sounds pretty helpless to me.

Well, bad (dangerous) technique. A rnc camel clutch, sure, but it's harder to control the choke because you have their weight to contribute to it. Probably the most helpless I've felt when I'm a submission hold. Here's the thing, though, an rnc doesn't leave much besides bodyscissors to pair with it to make it more brutal. A triangle choke uses your legs so your arms are free to attack the trapped arm for an arm bar, kimura, wrist locks. An inverted triangle choke offers cbt options and maybe ankle locks. A mounted triangle has options. The torture chamber (like a high back mount held with a triangle, not great for choking) offers wrist, shoulder, and arm attacks. A darce choke is awful as it's an anaconda. Guillotines aren't nice but they tie up both of your arms with the exception of a mounted guillotine but again that one is hard to control and guys usually tap out fast, not easy to set up though. Head scissors have options with one of their arms available to you.

If you would have to describe a scenario where a heel would have a very brutal match based on sleepers with a jobber, what would it be?